does such a thing as 'the fatal flaw,' that showy dark crack running down the middle of a life, exist outside literature? i used to think it didn't. now i think it does. and i think that mine is this:
have you heard about the theory that they didn’t actually kill the farmer but really killed a deer? and the farmer was killed by some other animal, that’s why they had bite marks and remembered chasing a deer. Then when they became less inebriated they saw the farmer dead and were covered in blood and assumed they killed him during their bacchanal. Imo it holds up and fits well with the whole Greek tragedy thing, they tried to be god-like and assumed their “bacchanal” was a lot more momentous than it was.
yeah i have seen it! it’s in the essay at the beginning of the section called “the tragedy of it all” lol. the theory never really spoke to me because i think they wanted to have killed the farmer so bad that they claimed the murder no matter who actually did it
oh my god i love this!! i read the secret history for the first time maybe 2 moths ago? and have been thinking about it ever since. it’s so interesting to see how so many of the readers are pulled into this romanticized world of academia and secrets and ancientness when the point of the story is the exact opposite--that getting swept up into its magic, complexity, and false sense of close companionship ends in tragedy and disaster.
nevertheless, wonderful wonderful book and amazing analysis!!! with the risk of this comment getting too long because of my rambling, i want to add my two cents on the characters and theories about what actually happened. so, of course, i think it all starts with Julian. his charismatic, mysterious, and intelligent persona seems to me to be a mask, a facade of some sorts, used to lure in the students. all the characters have bad, or at the very least tense relationships with their parents, and isn’t so interesting and suspicious how they all somehow end up thinking of Julian as a parental figure? looking up at him as the sole adult in their life they trust? in this way, he manipulated them into their obsession with ancient greek practices and classical studies in general. he also isolated them from other students by having a special class with very few selected students, making them feels special and ‘more than’ the others, thus their aversion to associating with any others. i believe he was the one to introduce the idea of the bacchanal to Henry, as he knew he would be easily convinced due to his fascination with ancient greece, as well as his influence over the group that views him as sort of a leader. so, that’s how i think they ended up doing the bacchanal. remember how they (or just Henry, i truly don’t remember) talked about how during the whole thing they saw a god at some point? possibly Dionysus? i personally think it was Julian that went to check in on his fantasy, to finally see it be brought to life without him even having to lift a finger, because hat was really his plan. he got them to do the bacchanal that he was so obsessed with taking part of, let them kill that man and deal with the consequences. because why would he care? he got what he wanted without getting his hands dirty.
now, camilla and richard are both very interesting characters to me. i think they were both much more involved in Bunny’s murder and everything else that was going on than we are led to believe. in Camilla’s case, we don’t know anything about her at all if we really think about it. i mean yes, we know of her and Charles, we know of her and Henry, but who is she and what was her role in all this? we only know what we know because of Richard, and his view of Camilla is so terribly romanticized since he was in love with her, that we can’t really trust it much. i would love a book on the secret history from her perspective!! now Richard, we know he’s an extremely unreliable narrator and also a great liar, so that makes u question everything he’s telling us. i don’t believe it’s all lies, but there are a lot of abrupt moments and information that doesn’t quite add up all the time, so i believe he is omitting information. i don’t think he was so very deeply involved in all of it, like Henry, but i think he had a bigger role to play than he’s letting us believe.
oh gosh, and Henry. he was such a manipulator, bending everyone to his will, but he was also manipulated by Julian, so we can’t really say he was the one behind it all. but he did everything he wanted, exactly as he wanted, and then became the martyr in the end. i’ve seen some people say how out of character it was for him to commit suicide wen caught by the police, but i think it was SO on point. he got everyone into that mess, and they kind of started to have mixed feelings about him towards the end, but he ended it on his terms, with the story he wanted out in the public, and left everyone feeing indebted to him for ‘saving’ them. he also whispered something to Camilla before pulling the trigger, and god, i don’t know why but i have a feeling it was something important. i don’t know if i’d go as far as to say that he somehow fakes his death and gave Camilla some information about that that he knew she’d catch on or that they already discussed, but i’m sure it was SOMETHING.
Francis and Charles ... well, i hoped at least Francis would have a better end at least.
this got so lengthy, i’m so sorry!! :O but i really loved your post and i loved the book and!! wel!! i love talking about the secret history theories heh
i totally agree with everything you said, esp the point about julian maybe being present at the bacchanal, which then makes his disappearance at the end of the book so confusing. was it because he didn’t want to get tied up in it and the police to suspect him? but the police were already involved long before the letter, and disappearing is anyway a suspicious thing to do. also i really liked what you said about henry! it was definitely all about control and about his narrative. again thank u for commenting !!
hmmm, his disappearance i think is about his fantasy of the bacchanal and being in control of it all kind of shattering when he discovered his students murdered bunny. that wasn't part of his plan, he didn't expect it, and didn't want to be involved in it. and it was also mentioned how he was teaching at another university before, but left and became a professor for this one. a little suspicious how this would be the second college he's left from methinks!!!
anyways, thanks so much for letting me ramble for so long!!! and i'm so sorry about all the typos, i just reread my comment and was mortified ...
have you heard about the theory that they didn’t actually kill the farmer but really killed a deer? and the farmer was killed by some other animal, that’s why they had bite marks and remembered chasing a deer. Then when they became less inebriated they saw the farmer dead and were covered in blood and assumed they killed him during their bacchanal. Imo it holds up and fits well with the whole Greek tragedy thing, they tried to be god-like and assumed their “bacchanal” was a lot more momentous than it was.
yeah i have seen it! it’s in the essay at the beginning of the section called “the tragedy of it all” lol. the theory never really spoke to me because i think they wanted to have killed the farmer so bad that they claimed the murder no matter who actually did it
oh my god i love this!! i read the secret history for the first time maybe 2 moths ago? and have been thinking about it ever since. it’s so interesting to see how so many of the readers are pulled into this romanticized world of academia and secrets and ancientness when the point of the story is the exact opposite--that getting swept up into its magic, complexity, and false sense of close companionship ends in tragedy and disaster.
nevertheless, wonderful wonderful book and amazing analysis!!! with the risk of this comment getting too long because of my rambling, i want to add my two cents on the characters and theories about what actually happened. so, of course, i think it all starts with Julian. his charismatic, mysterious, and intelligent persona seems to me to be a mask, a facade of some sorts, used to lure in the students. all the characters have bad, or at the very least tense relationships with their parents, and isn’t so interesting and suspicious how they all somehow end up thinking of Julian as a parental figure? looking up at him as the sole adult in their life they trust? in this way, he manipulated them into their obsession with ancient greek practices and classical studies in general. he also isolated them from other students by having a special class with very few selected students, making them feels special and ‘more than’ the others, thus their aversion to associating with any others. i believe he was the one to introduce the idea of the bacchanal to Henry, as he knew he would be easily convinced due to his fascination with ancient greece, as well as his influence over the group that views him as sort of a leader. so, that’s how i think they ended up doing the bacchanal. remember how they (or just Henry, i truly don’t remember) talked about how during the whole thing they saw a god at some point? possibly Dionysus? i personally think it was Julian that went to check in on his fantasy, to finally see it be brought to life without him even having to lift a finger, because hat was really his plan. he got them to do the bacchanal that he was so obsessed with taking part of, let them kill that man and deal with the consequences. because why would he care? he got what he wanted without getting his hands dirty.
now, camilla and richard are both very interesting characters to me. i think they were both much more involved in Bunny’s murder and everything else that was going on than we are led to believe. in Camilla’s case, we don’t know anything about her at all if we really think about it. i mean yes, we know of her and Charles, we know of her and Henry, but who is she and what was her role in all this? we only know what we know because of Richard, and his view of Camilla is so terribly romanticized since he was in love with her, that we can’t really trust it much. i would love a book on the secret history from her perspective!! now Richard, we know he’s an extremely unreliable narrator and also a great liar, so that makes u question everything he’s telling us. i don’t believe it’s all lies, but there are a lot of abrupt moments and information that doesn’t quite add up all the time, so i believe he is omitting information. i don’t think he was so very deeply involved in all of it, like Henry, but i think he had a bigger role to play than he’s letting us believe.
oh gosh, and Henry. he was such a manipulator, bending everyone to his will, but he was also manipulated by Julian, so we can’t really say he was the one behind it all. but he did everything he wanted, exactly as he wanted, and then became the martyr in the end. i’ve seen some people say how out of character it was for him to commit suicide wen caught by the police, but i think it was SO on point. he got everyone into that mess, and they kind of started to have mixed feelings about him towards the end, but he ended it on his terms, with the story he wanted out in the public, and left everyone feeing indebted to him for ‘saving’ them. he also whispered something to Camilla before pulling the trigger, and god, i don’t know why but i have a feeling it was something important. i don’t know if i’d go as far as to say that he somehow fakes his death and gave Camilla some information about that that he knew she’d catch on or that they already discussed, but i’m sure it was SOMETHING.
Francis and Charles ... well, i hoped at least Francis would have a better end at least.
this got so lengthy, i’m so sorry!! :O but i really loved your post and i loved the book and!! wel!! i love talking about the secret history theories heh
much much love <33
i totally agree with everything you said, esp the point about julian maybe being present at the bacchanal, which then makes his disappearance at the end of the book so confusing. was it because he didn’t want to get tied up in it and the police to suspect him? but the police were already involved long before the letter, and disappearing is anyway a suspicious thing to do. also i really liked what you said about henry! it was definitely all about control and about his narrative. again thank u for commenting !!
hmmm, his disappearance i think is about his fantasy of the bacchanal and being in control of it all kind of shattering when he discovered his students murdered bunny. that wasn't part of his plan, he didn't expect it, and didn't want to be involved in it. and it was also mentioned how he was teaching at another university before, but left and became a professor for this one. a little suspicious how this would be the second college he's left from methinks!!!
anyways, thanks so much for letting me ramble for so long!!! and i'm so sorry about all the typos, i just reread my comment and was mortified ...
THANK U FOR COMMENTING U JUST MADE MY DAY !!! now i will read your comment and get back to u <3